Talk:Mount Taranaki

Name Change to Taranaki Maunga

We have known for some time that the mountain's name will change from Taranaki / Mount Egmont to Taranaki Maunga. This Stuff Article, https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117865581/egmont-out-taranaki-maunga-in-agreement-reached-on-mountain-name-change, said it would happen in December 2020. The current LINZ website https://gazetteer.linz.govt.nz/place/3830 states that the official name is Taranaki or Mount Egmont. Elsewhere LINZ states that Government documents have exclusively used Taranaki since 2018 and the use of Egmont is deprecated. But I have not found a reliable source that states the name change has actually happened. An IP user changed the article saying that there is now only a single name but like most IP users he did not provide a reference. I naturally reverted it. My change has been reverted by a named user. Please provide some evidence that the change has actually happened or I must revert back to the last cited fact.OrewaTel (talk) 03:49, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

It would be reasonable to put priority on the government website (LINZ) over a news article (Stuff) so Wikipedia should follow the official government naming (as much as I would personally prefer the name to be just Taranaki, or Taranaki Maunga). --Pakaraki (talk) 07:49, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Now the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill has passed into law, it could well be that LINZ will move to "Taranaki Maunga". Speculation on my part but also quite likely. So it would be worth checking LINZ usage in say mid-February 2025. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 00:03, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes worth watching LINZ and understanding Geographical naming rules agreed by the wider community which default to common name in English usage at current time, which may not be a new official name. Editors to article should also recognise that Wikipedia is international and there will continue to be some usage of an even older historic name in English that was widely used for 200 years. Users also need to be aware that commonly used mapping tools such as Google Maps when accessed from an IP within a jurisdiction may serve up an official name such as Gulf of America different from what they serve up in English outside the jurisdiction. At this time the discussions in Talk:Gulf of Mexico are a potential reference point on official renaming implications.ChaseKiwi (talk) 10:18, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

According to reports the Bill won't be an Act until it is signed by the Governor-General (this report says it might be 3rd March) so no need to do anything until then. It may also take a while for LINZ to update the Gazetteer, and even so Egmont, even though no longer a name for the mountain, will still be a former name of the mountain and part of its history. Daveosaurus (talk) 11:29, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

The bill received royal assent in February as per https://taranakimounga.nz/news/te-ture-whakatupua-mo-te-kahui-tupua-and-taranaki-maunga/ and https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2025/0001/latest/LMS899476.html , as such I have now moved the page. Groot42 (talk) 04:26, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

@Groot42 Your actions have been reverted. Do not attempt a move without creating a discussion and gaining consensus Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 04:33, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Noted; I admittedly did not check the previous history of the page to notice the move was recently made and reverted.

In any case, the lead section still uses Taranaki Maunga as the official name, which seems to originate from the edit at [4]. Whichever name is used for the page title should probably also be the main one used in the lead section. Groot42 (talk) 04:52, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

References

Purge

This page can need a forced purge to display properly if preview not used on an edit as there is a fair reference list and other Lua processing time:

It's a big mess now, but remember: The editor who spilled this probably wasn't trying to make a mess for you to clean up.

ChaseKiwi (talk) 04:04, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Move warring

Can people PLEASE cut out the move warring. If you want this article moved there is an established procedure to do so. I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons to move this article to Taranaki Maunga and this is the place to supply them. We don't want to rush to the lowest common denominator. Daveosaurus (talk) 05:45, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Please see this Groot42 and Richlitt. ―Panamitsu (talk) 05:58, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Apologies for my own part in this; while I did read the discussion earlier, I had not noticed a move was already performed and reverted until after the fact. Groot42 (talk) 09:51, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Just to note the name isn't gazetted [5] Traumnovelle (talk) 05:13, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Pronoun

With personhood comes the issue of pronouns. Taranaki Maunga (or simply Taranaki) is referred to as "it" in the article. However, when Māori talk about Taranaki Maunga, they mostly use "he" and "him". And given that we are now dealing with a legal person rather than a geographic feature, I guess it's useful to think about pronouns. Hence, when articles by Stuff and The Post use "he" and "him", what should we do here? Schwede66 03:00, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

The problem is that most international readers and general English usage would not be familiar with personhood and changing all the its would not read well. The common non gender usage remains in other English speaking cultures, subcultures and New Zealand English when not referring to the personhood. Wikipedia should reflect current common usage. Both the articles you quote from, are referring to the personhood. If cited properly, I am all for mentioning, that the personhood is a he at least once. ChaseKiwi (talk) 14:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. This isn’t straightforward. Maybe the article should discuss the pronoun usage. Schwede66 15:33, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

I think the article should, especially if it gets a new name. I checked LINZ just in case after posting comment and generated the page move request as official renaming has worked through the system overnight NZ time. ChaseKiwi (talk) 17:12, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Agreed on both points; the article should primarily use it/its, but the fact the legal person is male should be mentioned. Groot42 (talk) 09:35, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Personhood is in the legal sense like a company. It's not actually a person, so we shouldn't be referring to it as such. --Spekkios (talk) 08:16, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 2 April 2025

Mount Taranaki → Taranaki Maunga – The new official name is now gazetted at LINZ. The name of the article has been controversial in the past so this move should be done with consensus. There is other relevant discussion at Talk:Mount Taranaki that provides the background to this formal request and Taranaki Maunga is being increasingly used, especially in New Zealand English ChaseKiwi (talk) 17:02, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Oppose no evidence has been provided that this is the common name; moves are not pre-emptive. Current title is more recognisable and easily understood by any English speaker. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:18, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

There is a claim that the name is understood/widely used within Taranaki, the data doesn't support that: [6] Traumnovelle (talk) 07:04, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

This is the world wide data Last years Google Search- Interesting Indian English still results in Mount Egmont searches ChaseKiwi (talk) 08:04, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

Oppose Just because something is gazetted or official does not mean it becomes the wikipedia title. --Spekkios (talk) 08:06, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Comment I’ve spent quite a bit of time in New Plymouth over the last couple of years and for what it’s worth, I have observed that locals use Taranaki Maunga commonly. Schwede66 09:33, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Support I live in the Taranaki region. Taranaki Maunga/Mounga is widely understood and growing in use. Taranaki Maunga has also been granted legal personhood, so this name should be considered to be like a persons legal name. 222.152.148.174 (talk) 04:07, 5 April 2025 (UTC)